Publishing Chats: Noelle Allen, Publisher at Wolsak & Wynn, in Conversation with Jack David, Founding Editor of ECW Press

A series of conversations about the publishing world focusing on the role of independent Canadian publishers

Jack David at The Beaches, Toronto, in 1981. Photo by David O’Rourke.

Jack David is a founding editor of Essays on Canadian Writing and ECW Press. He’s also the editor or co-editor of Canadian Writers and Their Works (24 volumes), The Annotated Bibliography of Canada’s Major Authors (10 volumes) and other works. He has served as chair of the Literary Press Group and of the Ontario Book Publishers Organization as well as a board member for the Association of Canadian Publishers. He has been a jury member for many arts organizations. Jack David has also taught publishing at Centennial College, Humber College and Toronto Metropolitan University, and is a mentor to many new publishers. His hobby is reading. 

Noelle Allen: First, could you tell us a bit about ECW. When did it start, and why? Where are you today?

Jack David: It started at York University as a critical journal, Essays on Canadian Writing (1974), and gradually became a book publisher, focusing on scholarly work. In the early 1980s, my partner Robert Lecker and I got sucked into trade books, fiction by Hugh Hood, John Metcalf, and Leon Rooke. Welcome to an unknown land, of distributors, bookstores, collections, publicity and returns. A couple years later we backed out of trade and concentrated on criticism. But once bitten, we were infected, and got started again. In the early 90s, we asked ourselves why we were only doing lit crit? We moved into short bios, the first about k.d. lang, and got drawn in again to the vortex. By the mid-90s, we were full on trade, and doing OK in the States and internationally. Pretty much the same today except more books and more writers and more people.

NA: What was it like to publish in Canada when you first started bringing out books? 

JD: There were bigger players, such as M&S (McClelland & Stewart), Stoddart, Key Porter, D&M (Douglas & McIntyre), Fitz and Whits (Fitzhenry and Whiteside). We were small potatoes, learning (occasionally) as we went along. The LPG (Literary Press Group) had just begun to split off from the ACP (Association of Canadian Publishers), and there was no common sales or distribution arrangement for small publishers. In the early 80s, the LPG began that process at UTP (University of Toronto Press) with the help of a federal grant, and that was a turning point that allowed us to warehouse our books and receive monthly payments.

Think of the technology. When we started there were no computers, no internet, no fax machine! We’ve gone through those massive shifts. In 1980 we were functioning pretty much like they were in 1880. By 1995, everything had changed—except the goal was the same: find great authors and manuscripts and connect the books with readers. 

NA: What was the biggest challenge in publishing then, and what do you think is the biggest challenge now? 

JD: As a couple grad students in English, we knew nothing about the business of publishing. Still don’t know much, but enough to bluff our way through. The technology changes, the market changes, but still somehow there are young people who want into our world. Mercifully, finding talented employees is still possible. Every couple of years a huge problem shows up: the GDS (General Distribution Services) bankruptcy, the bank calling our loan, the internet (not so much a problem as a mountain to climb), finding office space, pandemic, switching distributors, getting old. Not much I can do about that last one except I can find a great successor.

NA: Can you share a few of the major changes in the industry that you’ve seen over the years?

JD: Apart from what I just wrote, I’d say it’s the dominance of the multinationals and the Big Bookstore, which sells about 50% books and about 50% cultural merchandise. Discounts keep going up, from around 40%-42% in the early 80s to the mid-50s today. How can you make a buck? Where’s the margin? Of course, the computer/internet led to ebooks and audiobooks. All we had to do was create ebooks for our list of >1000 titles. 

NA: How about government support for publishing, everyone in the industry’s favourite topic of discussion. Are things better now than earlier? Worse? What are the main differences? 

JD: I’d say things are better, at least in Ontario. The Tax Credit is a major support, and its expansion from first book, to first three books, to all books was crucial. How did that come about? Lobbying, rationales and luck. The Canada Council has gone from a supportive, welcoming, collaborative place to something else—all because of a lousy director. I don’t know anyone there anymore. I used to.

NA: I remember years ago you advised me that the longer I held on in publishing the better the books that came to me would be, that I’d be amazed what I’d see at ten years and at twenty years. Is that still true? Do the books just keep getting better?

JD: If you’ve treated your authors well, then they will return, and in time write more books, and sometimes better books. They will tell their friends. Some of your books will backlist and gradually that portion of your sales revenue will grow and provide a more stable base to work from. And you will learn more as you go, and you will take on new, energetic people. Manuscripts that you might have taken five years ago will now no longer meet your standards. And you will say to yourself, what was I thinking back then? If that doesn’t happen, you’ll be stagnating, and bored. Time to get out.

NA: Finally, any words of wisdom for people trying to understand this strange business? What keeps you turning on your office lights and sitting down at your desk every morning?

JD: Some people say to me, how’s retirement? By selling ECW to David Caron in 2015, I must now be retired. I went from being the manager with David as the bench coach, to the reverse. If you meet me, ask me this question: How does your spring/fall list look? Or this: have you signed up any good manuscripts lately? And if my answer to these questions is a blank look, then it’s time to pack up my red pencil. But if I am genuinely excited about authors and books and new manuscripts, then I will keep going because it’s what I love to do. All this, naturally, as long as the books I acquire win prizes, break even and backlist.